How do you become a discplined bad ass?
The Navy SEALs are some of the biggest bad asses on this planet. Their training and selection process is one of the most brutal, rigorous processes in the military world.
SEALs are renowned for their focus, discipline, and perseverance. Most SEALs go on to be successful business owners and entrepreneurs, because their ability to stick to something and be extremely accountable.
I got to talk with retired Navy SEAL Jocko Willink to talk about discipline, determination, and focus. Jocko run’s his own MMA gym, and has his Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and has written three New York Times Best-Selling books about the life skills and lessons learned during his time serving in the Navy.
I had him come out to my house in Beverly Hills to talk about productivity and beating procrastination, and how to overcome obstacles in life.
Here's what he said:
Tai: When I ask people the number-one thing they think is holding them back, it's not lmoney, it's not their upbringing. It's literally “I'm procrastinating.” Is it possible to take somebody who struggles with procrastination and turn them into a disciplined person?
Jocko: You know it's interesting, if the person wants to, then yes. If the person doesn't want to, no they won’t. That's the answer. If you got a person that realizes the power of having discipline, and stepping up, and making things happen, versus the power of procrastination and waiting and hesitating.
Then where that makes you end up is, if you realize that, and you make that decision, then you're on the way there. People think there's some kind of a shortcut, like I can tell you this little secret and then you become more disciplined, but the secret is if you know you're supposed to do something, you do it.
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Tai: You were in the NAVY for 20 plus years, right? You went through hell week with as a Navy SEAL, you went through battle, but not everybody can do that. Do people need somebody else pushing them or can you just go within and become this disciplined person?
Jocko: I was saying that in SEAL training, they don't actually train you in any way to be tougher, they just try and make people quit, and so the people that aren't tough enough, they quit.
Us who didn’t give up had something inside of us that said “You know what? I'm gonna get up today again, I'm gonna do what I'm supposed to do.” You just realize that this work that you're doing right now is gonna pay off in the long run and that's a powerful tool.
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Tai: So, in addition to being a Navy SEAL, you're retired now, but you have a MMA school, and l you're a black belt and jiu-jitsu under Dean Lister. Do you think martial arts is a practical thing?
I've told people this and maybe I've given the wrong advice, so I want your opinion. I tell people that if you're lacking in discipline, go do martial arts. Being there with a teacher, and a routine, it helps.
It's not a guarantee but it doesn't hurt. Do you think I’m on track?
Jocko: I think that's rock solid advice. I tell I tell people jiu-jitsu is a solution for all kinds of problems. For sure. The thing is, do you feel like training every single day in jiu-jitsu? No, no one does. I don't care who you are. The days that you don't feel like training, but you go anyways.
That's how you get better, that's when you get better, and that's the difference between people that become a black belt, or at least become highly skilled, and the people that don't. Because the people that don't, the day that they don't feel like training, and they don't go train, and then. guess what? the next day they're like, “yeah, you know what it's kind of nice just watching TV yesterday so I'm not gonna go today” Whereas the person that says “You know what? I'm training today even though I don't feel like it, I'm going anyways. Same thing with the gym. I don't feel like working out right now, but I'm working out anyways.
Tai: So somebody tweeted at me that the magic doesn't happen overnight, or, you know, the math says it's not gonna happen to them. So are you fatalistic? Do you kind of see the world and go this person never could be a Navy SEAL, this person never could be a black belt this person never gonna be disciplined, they're always gonna procrastinate, or do you always have hope that maybe deep down there's this gem that's just hidden behind the rock.
Jocko: They've done all kinds of studies and they still do them to figure out who's gonna make it through SEAL training, and they've they spent millions of dollars trying to figure out who's gonna make it through and even when you see people you see people in your SEAL training class and you go man that guy's a stud, you know, and the classic examples I use all the time I had a guy in my class who was a an NCAA water polo player, that's a high-caliber athlete right there, and another guy was a Olympic alternate gymnast, so crazy athletes, right?
Both those guys quit. Both of them. I was like a marginal high school athlete, right? I was like an okay athlete, but I made it and there was guys that I thought there's no way this guy's gonna make it and he made it, and people that I thought were gonna make it, didn't make it. So what that says to me is that it doesn't really matter who you are. It doesn't really matter about these skills and these natural you abilities that you might have. If you've got the will to make it happen you can make it happen.
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Tai: So I’ve always wondered, are drill sergeants genuinely angry people? Like are they actually mad or is it just for show?
Jocko: What it is is they're doing their job. When you see the Marine Corps drill instructors, the army drill sergeants, the the SEAL team instructors, they're doing their job. That’s what they do. They're trying to put stress on people because combat is stressful, and if you don't train for stress, then you have people that leave because they can't handle the stress, then those instructors aren't doing their job.
Tai: Yeah, now you've been in battle, you've gotten the Silver Star, the Bronze Star. What's something that stood out to you that you remember, like a hyper stressed point. Like where you had to make a crazy decision when you were in battle.
Jocko: Well let me tell you, the first time I ever got shot at I don't even know I was getting shot at, because no one had any combat experience, including me. I'm sitting there in a Humvee and I'm looking at the Humvee in front of me, we got five Humvees and we're going somewhere, and I'm looking at the Humvee in front of me and it looks like someone's flicking cigarettes out the window. Like little sparks are coming and I'm thinking to myself “who's smoking?” like “wait why is there five or six people smoking in that Humvee right now?” Well I realized that those are bullets we're getting shot at right now. It's one of those things where you realize “Oh, this is a not a game.”
Tai: Did your stress level go through the roof then or were you able to stay calm because of your training?
Jocko: Yeah, it's a battle to stay calm for sure, but I'll tell you what I had been in the SEAL Teams for like 13 years before I shot my gun for the first time at bad guys, and by that time it was like taking a drink of water. I mean I was so ready and so prepared from my training that it really took over.
Tai: Now, not to get political but the Middle East has been called the graveyard of Empires. Russia was there, Genghis Khan was there, Alexander the Great was there. In the long-term is it sustainable? Do you think for countries like the United States to have a presence there,are we doing more good than bad? What's your opinion?
Jocko: Well look at the presents that we kept in countries after World War II. We're still in Germany right now, we're still in Japan right now, you know? So that idea that we can't maintain that is kind of a false concept.
If we have the will then we'd stay there and it's the same thing with any situation that America gets into. If we have the will we can achieve whatever mission we want to achieve, if we do lack the will then it's a lost cause.
We did a lot of good in Iraq. In Iraq you saw the conditions that the people lived under Saddam. I went and walked around inside of buildings that were owned by Saddam and they had literal torture chambers in them, with meat hooks and chains. It was horrible to see and when we got there the people were so happy.
Now it's easy to fight a war looking back we can all see mistakes that were made but we didn't recognize the emergence of this insurgency in Iraq, and when that happened we didn't address it properly and quickly enough. Eventually we did and eventually we did a great job. We adjusted. The major difference was at first we were thinking, hey you know what there's terrorists here we'll go capture the terrorists and then once we capture the terrorists we'll be okay well what it really turned into was an insurgency which is a little bit different.
An insurgency is not just one or two people, it's a movement. And the movement started to get financing, and they started to get leadership from foreign fighters and so we didn't recognize that soon enough.
Tai: Right, so what changed?
Jocko: So what we had to do was we had to change our strategy and we eventually did. We eventually said okay we're not just gonna go out and get the bad guys, what we're gonna go out do is we're gonna take care of the civilian populace inside Iraq the normal everyday people that are living in Iraq that were being terrorized.
We throw that word around in America, we talk about being terrorized. I'm talking these people were being terrorized, these people were being beheaded, these people were being murdered, people were being raped and tortured by these insurgents.
They didn't want those insurgents there, they were so scared they didn't know what to do, and eventually once they realized once we changed our tactics, and changed our strategy to to make it instead of fighting the terrorists, we made it let's secure the populace.
Let's take care of the people that are there. Once they realize that we were gonna take care of them, they started giving us information and intelligence. Once they started giving us information and intelligence, we can really go out and target the right people and that's what turned things around.
Tai: Let's talk about ISIS for a second. People are always arguing about Trump and Obama. Do you think the way the US has changed the way it’s military operates? Because Trump is like, look we're winning the battle. Do you think it's because of new policies in the new administration or do you think it's a carryover from Obama?
Jocko: No, the way the situation's been handled now is it's decentralized command. That's what it is, and I actually talk about that quite a bit in my book Extreme Ownership. It's decentralized command. It's letting the people that are on the battlefield make decisions on how they're going to handle it and and that's what happened. And on top of it, Trump has put a guy named General Mattis to be Secretary of Defense, and he’s a brilliant guy, he’s a great leader. They call him the warrior monk he reads he's got a personal library of like 7,000 books. He understands the troops, he understands the problem and he addressed the problem and he had the freedom of movement to do that on the battlefield,you know along with his commanders who he listened to, because he understands decentralized command.
Tai: Let's talk about mentorship. Did you have a mentor before the military or during a military? Like one or two people that you really see as influential in your life.
Jocko: I grew up in the SEAL Teams, you know from from my teenage years up through my adulthood, and so obviously there was some people that had some pretty significant influence on me. Yeah there's no doubt about it, but in a sense, maybe the whole Navy SEAL program was kind of like a mentor. it's true but you gotta remember that SEALs are people. They're not Terminator robots, they're normal people.
Tai: So while you were going through training, did you use like positive thinking at all? Do you think visualization is that part of it, or do you think that's overrated? Were you sitting there in your own head saying I will make it through I will make it through?
Jocko: No, I was just busy getting after it. I wasn't saying “oh please make it through, make it through.” No, I was just making it through you. You wouldn’t lay there and visualize at night, you just went to bed because you were so tired. No gimmick, no exact trick. Sometimes I feel like all of us humans, we want some magic bullet that someone gives us some solution, but then you realize in life it isn’t that simple. If it was that easy, everyone would be not procrastinating, everyone would have discipline.
Tai: Now, somebody asked, “Jocko, what is the most frightening thing you’ve experienced?”
Jocko: The most frightening thing for me was being in Ramadi. I was the commander, I was in charge and so most the time I had five different elements out in the field I wouldn't be going with them. The scariest thing for me was watching those guys roll out of the gate because there was soldiers and Marines getting wounded and killed every single day and when you see those guys rolling out and I see my guys rolling out, my friends, my brothers, knowing the risk that they were facing. That’s the biggest fear. I would have it every single time was one of my guys are gonna get wounded or killed yeah so the responsibility of leadership was frightening
Tai: Well Jocko, it’s been an honor having you on. Thank you for your service, and for joining me.
Jocko: Thank you for bringing me here.
It was such a great experience talking to an American Hero. The parallels between the military and running a business are so similar, which is why so many of these elite warriors make great entrepreneurs. Like the title of his second book says, Discipline Equals Freedom. So much of being disciplined is deciding that you’re going to be disciplined, and to stick to it. It's that simple. I find having routines, or certain activities that I do everyday builds up that discipline.
What do you do to build discipline in your day?
Let me know what ways you overcome procrastination. I think that accountability and realizing the value of reward is key to overcoming obstacles, and to keep pushing through until you reach your goals.
Life will throw hurdles at you, it does to everyone, but the people who keep grinding through, and don’t give up, are the ones who succeed.
Stay Strong,
Tai
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