How humans can live to be to 700 years old. Is this mad science?

Can Humans Live to 700 Years Old? Today I have another very special guest: Dr. Kim. We're talking about whether your kids, or even you, will be able to live to 700 years old. Dr. Kim is a real MD, not somebody who took an online class on first aid and calls himself a doctor. He specializes in this whole new world of aging and slowing the aging process. He says you can't reverse aging, per se, but some people are aging a little bit faster. We all know that's true, you go back to your high school reunion, some people look like they're already 700 years old. And some people look like they haven't aged a day. I recorded my conversation with him and transcribed it for you here. Check it out: Tai: We're gonna start out with the most controversial question of all, will people born today live to 700 years old? Let’s do a speed round. You're only allowed to give three answers, yes, no, or maybe. As a medical doctor what do you give it? Dr. Kim: Maybe. Tai: You give it a maybe. So you don't rule it out. Dr. Kim: Maybe, I'll do a maybe. Tai: You don't rule it out. Dr. Kim: I don't rule it out, right, I don't rule it out. Tai: For those of you who don’t know Dr. Kim, here’s a little background. Doctor Kim's based out of Walnut Creek, born in South Korea, came to the US at age one, went to medical school in Philadelphia, went to the Midwest for residency training, moved to Northern California and been a family physician. Now he's creating a new field of medicine or part of that. You're calling it valengerontology. Which is basically, what? How to live to 700? You should call it 700-ology. Dr. Kim: Great, yeah, so valen is a Greek term that means strong and healthy. And so gerontology is obviously the study of aging. Specifically it was the disease of aging, but really can be just generalized as the study of aging. So what we're trying to do here is study healthy aging. Tai: Okay. Dr. Kim: We're trying to do what now we consider, not just about increasing life span, but increasing health span. So what is health span? So the Buck Institute of Aging has sort of prioritized this in their study and in their motto that they're trying to create health span where it's free of disease. It's a life that's more functional and being able to do the things that you want to enjoy, cause if half your life span is met with chronic diseases and ailing, are you really enjoying life or being able to be functional. Tai: So we'll review, let's talk. I want to do something different today, I want to talk about my test results as kind of a litmus test or an example for somebody listening. So, basically for the last two to three years, every single month, almost every month I've tested my blood, I've spent literally like two to $10,000 a month testing every known test. I've done SpectraCell and NutrEval. I've done WellnessFX, I've done you know saliva adrenal tests. I've done the ELISA food allergy and there's a couple food allergy ones. I've done gut checks, pretty much if it's available, I've done it. I have the Dexa truck for my body fat and muscle come regularly. So I want to go through my results and I just wanna talk about a few things. Basically, a friend of mine told me something interesting. He’s been spending millions of dollars on his own health, this guy wants to live forever, he's a very wealthy businessman. He says his theory is there's two things we have to fix if you wanna live to 700 years old. Number one, we have to clean our blood. Number two, we have to look at the cellular level. So he doesn't focus so much on the hormonal stuff. I feel like a lot of stuff that you see talked about is like hormonal, men are taking HGH, or women are taking estrogen or testosterone, that’s my friends theory. Can I get you as afull fledged medical doctor, your opinion, is he on the right track, is it blood and cells that kill us? Dr. Kim: It's too simple a question to ask that way. So the problem here is it's a combination of all of that and that's the problem right now is that we have not structured our medicine to look at it in a more holistic global way. So it is not just his picking of blood and cells but it's also the hormone signaling, it's whatever toxins you've been exposed to, it's your genetic makeup and exposures, it's your microbiome with the bacteria. There is so many factors that make you you that we need to try to look around and figure out a way to measure that. That gives us a good picture of how you're aging physiologically or those kinds of measures. So one of the things that’s a problem is lab testing. The problem with blood testing and lab testing is that we are often looking at parameters and treating that as the end all be all. Tai: Okay. Dr. Kim: So really what we should be doing with lab testing is measuring you and following you and seeing how the results change based on the lab results. One of the problems I've had in medicine is that a lot of people treat the blood work as though it is the Bible of the body and that's it. So we sometimes ignore the picture of the patient and one of the classic examples that have been supported is the kind of idea of thyroid disease and hypothyroidism and we'd look at, a person would come in maybe with the symptoms of thyroid deficiency where they're gaining weight, they're starting to get depressed, they're feeling cold intolerance, their reflexes are slowing down, they're losing their hair and things of that nature that reflect a low thyroid state possibly and then the blood is done by the doctor and the doctor sees the blood test and it comes back in this “ low normal range” from the lab. The problem here is that we don't know what his levels were when he was healthy and maybe for him low normal is a significant decrease. Tai: Right. Dr. Kim: So a lot of times the doctor says, "Well I thought it was your thyroid "but you came back in the low reference range "so it's more of your aging situation, "you gotta learn how to deal with it." So we can't treat you right now, instead of looking at it in a way that’s particular to him, saying maybe you are showing signs of the thyroid now and we should start treating you aggressively. Now that's the other thing that's a problem with medicine is that medicine is black and white. Tai: Right. Dr. Kim: Medicine looks at things either as a disease or not and most states are not that simple. Especially in the chronic disease. There is a period that you're developing into the chronic disease. Now there are two recognized disease states that I can think of that are recognized in a pre-state and that's pre-hypertension or pre-high blood pressure and pre-diabetes. Pretty much all other chronic states can be looked at that way. Tai: So you were saying like 20 years ahead of time you can see diabetes potential? I mean you see pre-diabetes? Dr. Kim: That's right so there was an article that said that first signs possibly of diabetes actually show itself maybe even 25 years before overt diabetes comes into play. Now I'm just referring to the title of the article and I didn't even get to read any detail about that but it was very interesting what they were saying as a headline that diabetes may manifest as early as 25 years before it actually becomes a disease diagnosis. Tai: So in that 25 years can it be headed off, can it be averted? Is it just more like the propensity? Dr. Kim: Well that's the question right? The system is very complex, the human organism has many inputs and many signaling going on and can we stop that? I'm sure we could. I'm sure there's ways that we can stop the progress before it gets into a man made diagnosis of a state called diabetes. Tai: Yeah so let me ask you this. So as a businessman I know you can only focus on one thing at a time or a few things like Confucius said, "The man or woman who chases two rabbits catches none." So somebody's listening and their main goal is let's say longevity or improved health or fitness. If you could only pick three things to focus on, whether they be hormonal, blood, what would they be in priority order? What would be number one? Dr. Kim: Well I think that again it's a very individualistic to each person to figure out what their story is but one of the first ones is looking at their genetic makeup. Tai: Okay. Dr. Kim: To figure out certain things related to their genetics, 'cause that's where it all starts. Now the complication with that is that the genetic makeup is not just singular to the human species, meaning that we have a symbiotic relationship with a lot of bacteria apparently. There are some numbers now that suggest that even though we have 20,000 human DNA genes, we're interacting with two million bacterial DNA genes. So that makes us really 1% human and 99% bacteria to some degree. You can think of that kind of situation or make that case. So it's not just your genes but the interaction of the other genes that you're being introduced to and there are companies that are looking at the whole program related to that and your exposures to certain bacteria and those kind of factors. Tai: So for genetic makeup what companies do you like to test for that? Dr. Kim: Yeah so I mean there is all these DNA, LifeDNA, Pathway Genomics, that is the early stages of trying to figure out which testing that we need to do. There's a new company called Viome that seems to be looking at the whole microbiome plus their expression of those and giving you a higher level of input into your present health system. Tai: That was the billionaire Naveen Jain, he was over here at the house. Dr. Kim: Correct. Tai: We did a show together and he started Viome so it's pretty cool. Dr. Kim: Yes, yes. Tai: So you think the idea behind Viome which is we're not just gonna test your blood, we're gonna look at your gut. Do you think that's under looked in modern medicine, overlooked in modern medicine? Understudied? Dr. Kim: Understudied or assumed to be healthy and not-- Right now it's not very much looked at as a source of a disease issue. So in the way I look at things I think hormones are very important for our signaling going forward for aging. One of the tenets in this kind of belief of medicine is that we age because we lose or are deficient in our hormones, not that we age and lose hormones. Tai: Right. Dr. Kim: We age because we lose those signalings that keep us relevant. Tai: Yes. Dr. Kim: When people think about hormones they think about testosterone for men and estrodiol for women, it's your thyroid, it's your cortisol, it's your human growth hormone, it's the insulin levels, there's a lot of signaling that goes on that is unbalanced as we get older from factors that are related to the toxins and the breakdown and just stress, what stress does to the body so those kind of considerations. The Institute of Functional Medicine has come up with four parameters of lifestyle that are equivalent to prescription strength medicine, so if you manage these four things well, you are taking four prescription level medicines. Those four things are sleep, stress management, physical activity, and diet and nutrition. So managing those things well and getting guidance on those things can help you hopefully, you're basically equivalent of taking four prescription level medicines and mostly keep you away from the medicines that people end up getting when they get older. Tai: Did it say weight lifting? I feel like weight lifting is massive. Dr. Kim: Well weight lifting is part of physical activity, that's right, each person has their own needs and some people like lifting. Tai: When I was there at your office, you were talking about weight lifting, 'cause I see with physical fitness a lot of people think - oh I'm gonna go on my treadmill and I'm gonna take a walk with my dog - and that's all important but there is something magical about weights. My dad was a pro body builder and it seemed like he literally did not age. When he was 60 years old he looked like he was 30, I posted a picture on my Instagram when he was in his 40s and people were blown away like wow how old's your dad? I remember my dad hurt his thumb bench pressing when he was about 65 and within two years he basically completely aged. He looked his age. Dr. Kim: Wow. Tai: I remember seeing him, I was living out of state and when I came back to see him I was like what happened and my brother's like he hurt his thumb he couldn't lift weights for two years and it's like his body gave out. It was almost like weight lifting was a signal and it just signaled to him you're old now and he just got old. Dr. Kim: Yes. Tai: Does that sound outside the bounds of rational thought, what I'm thinking? Dr. Kim: No not at all. So the idea behind weight lifting programs is that you're building the muscle tissue and that muscle tissue also signals sometimes more release of hormones to create that muscle build so that it is effective. These sort of exercises that are related to interval training or doing things where you get into an anaerobic threshold, increases levels of testosterone and human growth hormone naturally. So in essence you're boosting your levels of testosterone where you don't get that with cardio necessarily. Tai: Right. Dr. Kim: The cardio exercises just do more of your heart training and conditioning but the actual increases in hormone signaling for building muscle are related to those weight lifting exercises or those interval training when you become anaerobic. Tai: Interestingly enough I had some friends from Europe, one guy's name is Emil and he's a UFC fighter. He's fighting in the UFC, his first card, he got on the main card in his first fight, he's a really good fighter in Europe, so he's fighting I think in St. Louis in a couple of months. His trainers were there with me and they said he basically came out as the most condition UFC athlete in the world. Dr. Kim: Wow. Tai: So I asked him, we were at Mel’s Diner on Sunset Boulevard, I said "Emil", "What is your secret? "What do you do?" And he goes, "Simple. "Keep it simple stupid." He said, "There's this company." By the way it's not an endorsement of them, I don't get paid, but it's called Polar Beat, it's an app, Polar Beat, like heartbeat, polar light, polar bear. So he said "You buy this chest strap." So I bought it, it's like 50 bucks, you download their app. And it measures your heartbeat while you're working out. And he says, his secret is he keeps it at 87% of max heartbeat. So you measure your max heart is 220 minus your age, so I think he's like 25 or something. So goes 195 is his max, so he does 87% of that. Let's say it's 170 something. He says in one week, 60 minutes keep it in that red zone, and your VO, I wanted to ask about this. Dr. Kim: V02 max. Tai: So what is VO2 max? I know a little bit, it's kind of a conditioning oxygen measurement. What do you think of VO2 max training? Dr. Kim: So VO2 max training is like Lance Armstrong, he has the highest VO2 max that's been recorded. It's all related to METS (metabolic equivalence) and how much burning of calories that you efficiently burn, how efficient your system is, so what levels of activity you can achieve. It's been used in stress testing measurements and making sure that when they're measuring METS and so you're trying to figure out what level of exercise you're tolerating, so you try to standardize that. VO2 max is another measure based on volume of oxygen that is generated, or that's consumed and used efficiently in the body. So when you measure Vo2 max it means that you're able to use the oxygen more efficiently than anyone else to burn the calories and move forward with producing energy. Tai: Do you think that's a factor in longevity and living to 100, 700? Dr. Kim: Oh yeah. Without a doubt, there have been studies that have been showing that if your VO2 max drops below a certain level, I can't remember specifically, I think it might have been 30, you are more at risk for being not on this Earth after a couple of years. Tai: Yeah. Interesting. Dr. Kim: If you think about it, it just makes sense. We are creatures of movement, we have all this muscle that we're meant to use. So if we don't use that, then our system is gonna break down, and it's not supported that way right now. We're not an intellect person, we're still animals and creatures that need to use the muscles to stay in shape. Tai: So The Million Dollar Body is the name of a book I wanna write and so backing up what you said, over the last two to three years as I've been testing my body, without a doubt the thing that moves a lot are my hormones and some of my friends that I've got on the same thing, heavy straining, heavy lifting, weight lifting, wrestling, jiu-jitsu, it seems that for a man, I have relatively high testosterone. This is not on steroids or anything, I've had my testosterone as high as I think either 1193 or 1293, and when I started three years ago, it was like in the 600s, which is still decent, six or 700. I saw it shoot up with just some herbal stuff, and but my friend also, Zack, yours shot up, right? Your testosterone? You added like 200 points to it, right? Two or 300 points, so what do you think on some of this herbal stuff? I know you're a doctor, you can prescribe pharmaceuticals, do you think that we'll get to a 700 partly by using natural medicines? Or will it be all more invasive, stronger medicines? Or will it be a blend? Dr. Kim: I think it's gonna be the last one. It's probably gonna be a blend of issues. So right now what I'm trying to come up with is a formula related to the idea that we are trying to use your natural systems for as long as they can be used to create the necessary environment to keep you in good heath. At this present time, because of our limited numbers of cells that we'll pass on, we can't use the hormones to promote that. Tai: So you're saying you don't think we'll live to 700 completely just boosting with herbs and natural stuff, our own body, it will need to be some more powerful stuff? Dr. Kim: Yes, right because one of the studies that was done by Nobel Prize winning technology is this whole idea of telemeters. That we have a certain limit of divisions that are left in our cells that we reach a limit on that, the cell won't divide anymore beyond that, and that basically keeps it from becoming a bad cell, in a sense. So that factor is limiting us right now, it's called the Hayflick limit, and its supposedly around when measured to be around 126 at this present time. So we're at about 126 cells for humans at this present time. Obviously they're working on technology to add more of these caps, these telemeters on to the end of the cells so it can go beyond that, and we're not that far off from that right now. Tai: So it's literally altering our DNA, will it be an invasive surgery, you'll lay down they'll inject something into you? Dr. Kim: No, no, no. There's crisper technology that's just come out recently, it's a microscopic scissor that can alter the DNA so exactly. It's being used now in DNA technology to treat patients that have had known DNA defects before they're even born. They're still fetuses. So the technology's getting there, we're gonna be able to do this molecular level alterations going forward. Then after the fact we're born and we’ll be able to do it to alter our present systems, mainly in stem cells. Tai: So let's talk about that. As we kind of wrap up here, I wanna get into it, because this is what me and you have talked about. Now you see in the show Silicone Valley, they’re getting blood from younger people. I had Steve Jobs' physician come in and we did a talk on his book, it was also kind of on Aging. He told me the most valid research for anti-aging was around mice, or rats, where they had put the blood of a younger one into the older, can you talk about that? The validity of it, do you feel like there's a lot of good proof that this works? Dr. Kim: Yes. So that is exciting technology that's in its stipient stages, people are going through clinical trials, using this in Stanford, and there's a company called Ambrosia that's using those young blood plasma treatments to help with the whole process of rejuvenation. The study is coming out of the labs of Dr Tony Wiskeray, Dr Amy Wagers, they were looking at this kind of conversion from the old mice with the young mice blood, and in their studies it’s specifically for Tony Wiskaray, who's a neurologist, he's looking for the treatment of degenerative aging processing specifically, Alzheimers. He’s now done some clinical trials using Stanford with his new company that he's developed called Alkahas to basically help them, and there's a press release recently showing that there was some positive results. Very small, limited study of 18 patients, but it basically was meant to show safety efficacy of data, and it did show some positive results in the patients who went through the trials in relation to their Alzheimers. So it is very exciting, the concept that we can apply the plasma from the source of young people to help with the aging population. I think it's one of the most powerful technologies that we're gonna have access to. Eventually as modern medicine figures out the specific components it will work to their advantage. I think it's one of the things we have in plasma that we don't have in other vehicles. There's a combination of products there that are helpful. It's not just testosterone. It's not just giving the human, it's the mixture that's the interaction in plasma that seems to be very effective in moving forward, now do the effects last is the question, and we don't know yet. Tai: What about side effects? You're taking blood from an 18 year old and putting it in a 50 or 60 year old. Are there potential blood born pathogens, some kind of allergic response potential? Dr. Kim: Of course, of course. So the nice thing about this product though is it's already FDA approved for use in another manner. So it already has gone through many years of basic testing and research, to figure out some of those blood-born pathogens that we wanna make sure that we don't obviously communicate over. So the plasma is filtered or tested for the obvious HIV or syphilis of those kind of products, and then it can be tested for other things that other patients may specifically want to be tested for going forward such as maybe lines. That’s always a risk with plasma, with blood, because it's coming from a source that's an infectious agent. The other side effects are related to histamine reactions from the plasma. If you get a plasma incompatibility you can get rejection. It's not just a treatment that you can do over the counter, you do have to have it in a medical office to see what kind of effects it may render. For the most part, the idea is that the reactions from plasma are much less than giving with plaque red blood cell. The plaque red blood cells have much more of a severe reaction that could be very dangerous. Tai: Before we wrap up here. Let's talk about stem cells because stem cells are all over the news. Are stem cells gonna be part of us getting to age 700? Do you think that we're gonna be taking, for example, there's different stem cells, the fat, the blood, I went to the top guy here in Beverly Hills who kind of pioneered where you take fat out of your back like liposuction, then they spin it out and he says the fat is 10 years back, so you your reinject from 10 years ago. I went to a top guy who does bone marrow, but he does more specific like if you hurt, like Kobe Bryant did, what was it? PRP for his knee I actually heard him, I sat next to him at his last three games as a Los Angeles Laker, and he was talking to some of the other players. I heard him say, he feels like his knee is young again. You also have talked about this, umbilical, which there's been some ethical stuff, so can you talk to us about umbilical or all other things stem cell, what do we need to know? Or what does somebody need to know if they wanna try to live to 700? Or have their kids live to 700. Dr. Kim: Without a doubt you're gonna need stem cells for your future to get to level eight of the aging process. Obviously one of the reasons why we pass on is that we don't have stem cells anymore to reproduce the cells. So the stem cell concept is related to the idea that these are the cells that help replenish and repair those cells that are dying. The human body has 40 trillion cells. How do you replace and replenish those cells that keep on passing on? You need the stem cells, you need the cells that are in the background, reproducing, recreating those cells that you need for function. Your cells for brain, your cells for gut, your cells for the heart, the pancreas, all those tissues are gonna be needed to move forward. Tai: So what are you doing as a doctor? Are you taking these umbilical stem cells and injecting them into some of your patients? Dr. Kim: That's one of the possible avenues of treatment, using umbilical source stem cells as a manner of rejuvenation for factors related to diseased lungs or diseased parts of that nature. There's no FDA approved use of the stem cells as of yet in those kind of situations. The umbilical source stem cells have been used as a treatment for hemapoietic blood disorders like leukemia, that's where it's been very successful in the beginning. The cells that we use from fat really hasn't been looked at very strongly for any FDA indications that I can recall at this time. We talk about some of the other indications of stem cells, PRP has minimal stem cells because if you think about it, there's always cells floating in our blood, if we ever injure ourselves, nature has created that situation that there's small amounts of stem cells 'cause otherwise we would bleed out. We need to create that tissue healing right away so that we don't bleed out. So there's always stem cells in that area, but most of the applications of stem cells to this day have been more orthopedic joint, and aesthetic. We are definitely moving toward where stem cells can get to a point where we can actually engineer tissues from your own cells and rejuvenate. There's been some science that shows you can get tissue and organ banks from your own stem cells. I can't remember what the show is, Ewan McGregor was in it. In any case, the idea is that at some point we're gonna be able to take the stem cells and create organs you need for your body as it fails. So one of the most exciting technologies that has recently come back is, we used to think stem cells were unidirectional, that we could only go in one direction with the cell growth. Like once the cell differentiates, it becomes that cell, but there are now things called IPSCs, induced pluripotent stem cells. These cells have actually been reversed engineered. You can take your own cell and get a cell that's already been differentiated. You can manage the technology now and make it back into a stem call that can become other tissue. It's exciting work. Tai: Why would you wanna do that versus just take new, or umbilical which is already undifferentiated? Dr. Kim: Right, right, so its your own source cells versus umbilical which is not yet your source. What if you don't have any stem cells left, or something happens. The idea is that you can now reverse engineer those set cells that are still existent to form something else. Tai: So if somebody's 85 years old, they don't have many stem cells. Dr. Kim: 85, exactly. They don't have it right now, yes. Tai: Do you think, for someone listening that has a parent or a grandparent that's getting old, 75/80. Do you think it's outside the bounds of rationality to consider some of these more extreme technologies, stem cell, blood rejuvenation. What is the name of the blood one? The young blood. Dr. Kim: It's young plasma. Young blood plasma. Tai: The name of the experiment that they did on rats where they connected them, that had a name, I forget. Dr. Kim: Parabiosis. Tai: Parabiosis. So do you think this young blood plasma is too crazy for people who are 70 or 80? Too aggressive? Dr. Kim: No. If you ask the question if I would do it to my grandparents… Tai: Yeah your grandparents. Dr. Kim: Yeah, I would suggest it as a means to treat my loved ones because what is the other alternative? They're just gonna continue aging. You and I talked about this, what we're trying to do with this kind of medicine is stop the accelerated aging that we're going through. Tai: Yes. Dr. Kim: The problem is that we have all of these things from stress, from toxins, from just our genetic makeup, that are causing us to age more rapidly than maybe we should be. So if we can do things to help slow that down, maybe that will help us from getting into these chronic disease states. One of the things that I try to emphasize when I see patients is my role is now switching from being a reactive doctor where I'm just waiting for you to get sick and then treat you, to being proactive. Being personalized, precise, and preventative. I'm trying to get it so that I try to follow you and figure out what are those things that are occurring to you before it becomes a problem. I'm still trying to figure out the parameters, looking at things like oxidative stress markers where your DNA is starting to show some early damage. Can we say that now that will lead to cancer? If we stop it early, we're preventing or stopping the cancer from coming on. Those are the kind of things that I'm trying to look into doing with my medicine, the medicine that I'm creating in valengerintology. Tai: Yeah, the slow food industry. You're talking the slow aging industry, which is a great idea. Dr. Kim: Right, right. Yeah, I don't like that you can't stop aging, right? Aging helps mature things, it's a good thing, but we don't wanna age where we're not functional. To the point where we are so problem ridden that it makes it no fun to be living. Tai: Dr Kim, thanks for being on. Where's the best place for people who want to follow up with you, learn from you, where should they go? Dr. Kim: So I have three present locations right now in the Bay Area. Probably the best number to reach me is my phone number at 925-979-0979, but also they can reach me via email, which is my name, paulhkimmd@gmail.com. Tai: What about your website, what's your website? Dr. Kim: So right now my website which is still going through some construction is previMD.com. Which stands for Prevention and Vitality. So that's why I came up with Previ. Tai: Well awesome. Thanks for being on. I appreciate it, we'll be in touch. Dr. Kim: Yeah, thank you for having me and appreciate it. ----------- Well there you have it. Fascinating stuff. Imagine what the world will look like in 20 years, or even 10 years. Technology is advancing at increasingly faster speeds each year. Not only in the field of medicine, but across the board. Take Cryptocurrencies for example. They are revolutionizing the way currency is used. If you're new to the Cryptocurrency world it can feel a little daunting at first. Maybe you’ve heard about Bitcoin all over the news, but don’t know where to start. It’s totally normal to feel overwhelmed at first, but the good news is, once you dive-in it gets easier. 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