What Makes A ‘Sellout’?

Plus, Paul McCartney talks to ‘Fresh Air’ [View this email online]( [NPR Music]( by Marissa Lorusso ['Sellout']( Houghton Mifflin Harcourt For some artists, signing to a major label is the ultimate dream; for other bands, it’s a betrayal beyond compare. In his new book [SELLOUT: The Major-Label Feeding Frenzy That Swept Punk, Emo, and Hardcore 1994-2007]( music writer Dan Ozzi chronicles the post-[Nevermind]( search for the next Nirvana (après Nirvana, le déluge), focusing specifically on 11 bands — including [Jimmy Eat World]( [My Chemical Romance]( and [Against Me!]( — and their major-label debuts. Each chapter presents a look into the usually intimate, often regional scenes that helped foster these bands in their early days, along with an unflinching depiction of the complexities that come with standing on the precipice of mainstream notoriety. For this week’s newsletter, we asked Ozzi about his research techniques, writing soundtrack and the inspiration behind telling this story. (This interview has been edited for length and clarity.) [“Who’s punk? What’s the score?”]( Lyndsey McKenna, NPR NPR: You’ve said you wrote SELLOUT because that word defined the era of music you grew up in. Can you tell us more about the inspiration for and impetus behind the book? Dan Ozzi: I used to have arguments with my friends in high school, these really passionate debates about which bands had sold out and which ones were still “punk.” I don't think it was just us, either. You'd read message boards or comment sections or fanzines and that was a very hot topic — which bands were authentic and which weren't. “Sellout” was like a punk slur then, the worst thing you could be called. It seemed like a conversation that defined that era, yet no one had documented it in a serious way. It felt like it was just floating there in the ethers, waiting for someone to reach out and pull it down. Can you tell us about the research process? You interviewed individuals on all sides, but there’s also material drawn from zines, television appearances and first-hand accounts. How did it all happen? I tried my hardest to interview all the band members as primary sources, and then a spread of supplementary sources, including A&R reps, managers, tour mates, etc. Probably over 150 people all together. I had something like five full days worth of recordings in total. And then I kept huge folders of any and all press I could find. Sometimes that meant sorting through grainy scans of ancient punk fanzines, other times I'd be at the library, trying to pull up articles in local papers. Or scouring the internet for bootleg recordings of shows or digging through the Wayback Machine to read bands' old tour blogs. (What a quaint time the internet was then. Just bands posting “We had a real fun time playing three nights ago in Des Moines. We'll hopefully have some photos from that show for you next week!”) It's when I found myself looking through bands' high school yearbooks that I realized I'd perhaps gone too far. Each chapter is centered on a specific album. Did working on this book change your opinion on any of those records? Spending weeks at a time with these albums definitely deepened my appreciation for all of them, but probably none more than the Distillers' Coral Fang. Brody Dalle is one of the most underrated songwriters to ever come out of punk, and that record — especially the back half — proves why. It's so vicious, but also sort of sexy. It's amazing how much versatility her voice has. Sometimes she'll let out these piercing shrieks, but then she'll slip right into seductive hums. And she can write a hook with the best of them. To me, that was the band at the peak of their songwriting. It's just a shame they couldn't hold it together for much longer. Every chapter made us want to revisit the record in question (or, in some cases, something else from the band’s catalog) in light of what we learned. For these Q&As, we always have to ask: Did you have a particular soundtrack while researching and writing? I definitely have a hard time writing with music playing in the background. But I'd listen to the music every minute that I wasn't writing. [I even made a nine-hour playlist of all the songs mentioned in the book and meticulously put them in chronological order of release]( so that I could relive 20 years of this music in real time. That may seem over the top, but it actually gets worse: I also read that Jawbreaker's Blake Schwarzenbach said somewhere that he used to make coffee in the morning while listening to Jack Kerouac [read beat poetry over Steve Allen's piano playing](. So guess what I listened to while making my coffee in the morning. Just in an attempt to get in his headspace or something. You might think that's a little insane, and you'd be right. Finally, what do you hope readers take away from this book? I think this book is going to act like those sound frequencies that are heard differently depending on your age. People over 30 can take one look at the title and cover and say, “Yup, got it. I remember this whole thing.” But anyone younger... I don't know! Maybe it will serve more as a learning experience for them about punk history. It's funny, Against Me! signing to a major label was the story that defined them among fans at the time. But nowadays, I'll go to an Against Me! show and there are many teenagers there, and they have no knowledge of this period whatsoever. I don't think most of them could tell you what label the band is even on. So it does seem like this punk fervor over label choices is definitively over, and it was definitely an era worth documenting. --------------------------------------------------------------- Newsletter continues after sponsor message --------------------------------------------------------------- New Music - Every month, we ask the NPR Music staff: [What’s the song or album you couldn’t stop listening to this month?]( In October, our colleagues found joy in the soundscapes of Helado Negro, faced our fears with Jordan Peters, and screamed along to Illuminati Hotties and Cerce. - Lindsey Jordan's debut album as Snail Mail, which documented the bliss of first loves, earned her the title "the future of indie rock.” Where on earth was she supposed to go from there? On her sophomore album, Valentine, [she’s just as devoted to honesty]( — even when the truth hurts. - Composer, producer and multi-instrumentalist Terrace Martin calls his new album — which includes features from Kendrick Lamar, Snoop Dogg, Kamasi Washington, Robert Glasper and more — a “Black Disneyland.” [Hear a conversation about that record]( plus new releases by Attacca Quartet, Aminé and Curtis Harding, on New Music Friday from All Songs Considered. --------------------------------------------------------------- Featuring - The forthcoming documentary Get Back revisits The Beatles' final days together. Ahead of its release, [Paul McCartney]( spoke to Fresh Air’s Terry Gross, and says seeing the new footage from the film has helped him reframe his own story. - Last week’s episode of The Formula tells the story of the relationship between [rapper Isaiah Rashad and producer Kal Banx]( which reveals how the best artist-producer collaborations work a lot like life — with friends to distract us from, and soundtrack us through, all our drama. - Divinity Roxx has worked as [Beyoncé’s music director and bassist](. Now, she has a new children's album and book project, which she hopes will instill positivity in young listeners. - [Ronnie Wilson]( founding member of R&B group The Gap Band, died this week. With his brothers Charlie and Robert, the multi-instrumentalist helped define R&B's sound in the 1970s and '80s, bringing a distinct flavor of synth-heavy electro-funk. - This week, our friends at member station WMOT shared a video of [Natalie Hemby]( performing “Heroes” from AmericanaFest 2021. --------------------------------------------------------------- Tiny Desk [The War on Drugs Tiny Desk]( NPR [The War on Drugs]( sound is big enough to fill an arena — but for the band’s Tiny Desk (home) concert, we get to hear it reverberating in a cozy setting. The group performed songs from its new album from its packed studio in Burbank, Calif. Plus: Torchbearer for Mexican Regional music [Joss Favela]( performs from his ranch in Sinaloa and [Nigerian singer Tems]( plays a Tiny Desk (home) concert from an elegant performance space in Lagos. --------------------------------------------------------------- One More Thing [Christmas comes early]( --------------------------------------------------------------- Stream your local NPR station. Visit NPR.org to find your local station stream. --------------------------------------------------------------- [Facebook]( [Twitter]( [Instagram]( What do you think of today's email? We'd love to hear your thoughts, questions and feedback: [nprmusic@npr.org](mailto:nprmusic@npr.org?subject=Newsletter%20Feedback) Enjoying this newsletter? Forward to a friend! They can [sign up here](. Looking for more great content? [Check out all of our newsletter offerings]( — including Books, Pop Culture, Health and more! Need a new playlist? 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