Spitballing with a marketing genius part 5

And now, for the grand finale of my backroom conversation with Ken McCarthy: === BEN SETTLE: Look, I hope you don't mind that I reprinted it, but in my Email Client Horde book about getting clients, I reprinted the first email you sent me because you didn't really know me. I knew who you were because I was subscribed to Dan Kennedy's newsletter and I'd see your inserts in there and that sort of thing. And you said, basically: “I don't know anything about you, but I went to your site and you write a lot and that's really rare for a copywriter." Here I am thinking I'm not writing enough… but that is a lesson of itself because doing the work, man, if you're going to be a writer of some kind, you got to write. KEN MCCARTHY: I believe, if I remember correctly, that's even in the course. I say, "Look, guys, it's copywriting." BEN SETTLE: Yes. KEN MCCARTHY: In other words, you've got to be a writer, which is like being a plumber or a stonemason. You got to show up with your tools and lay bricks. It's like a job. BEN SETTLE: I remember you talking about that in your System Club Letters book. As you know, I'm on record saying that is my all-time favorite business book. I've been telling people about it lately to people on Twitter. I'm like: “Look, these are the three resources if you're beginning, The Boron Letters, The System Club Letters, and Dan Kennedy's Ultimate Marketing Plan. Those three things. And now I'd say for copywriting, get Ken's course. Okay. If you don't know anything, especially, but even if you've been at this. Doberman Dan, he bought your course and he was already a seasoned copywriter at the time. KEN MCCARTHY: Oh my God, he was super pro. BEN SETTLE: And I talked to him a couple months ago. He still says: ”Yeah, that's a great course." He gave you a testimony for it. He still remembered it. There were some other names like Perry Marshall. KEN MCCARTHY: He's on there. One of the guys from Brian Kurtz's group, I can't think of the name. Nice guy, great copywriter, too. Did a lot of stuff for a boardroom. BEN SETTLE: And Tony Seruga. KEN MCCARTHY: Oh, yeah. I mean, Tony's one of those old ancient, old-school internet marketing. He didn't guru rise at all. He just went out and sold tons of his products. And he's been doing it since the '90s. Yeah, Tony's sharp. There was one guy, this was maybe my favorite moment in the course, he had a dance school and he was doing very well with it and he wanted to expand it on ... This is like 2005. And at the time, it was like, well, how could you do dance online? Well, there's 10 million people doing it now. BEN SETTLE: Yeah. KEN MCCARTHY: But I love what he said and he goes: "As a result of taking this course, I realized I don't have to be a copywriter. I can just simply articulately and honestly, in an interesting way, explain what I do to people." I'm going: “That's it." BEN SETTLE: Well, that's the thing, it's persuasive communication. It goes across the board. It all applies to the email and then one-on-one conversations, talk, whatever. KEN MCCARTHY: And you distinctly shouldn't filter yourself through copywriting speak. I think that was the thing that was liberating for him. He thought he had to take all this wonderful knowledge and enthusiasm and anecdotes and all these stories he had and he had to somehow put them through the copywriting filter so that they would sound like copywriting. I'm like: “Dude, that's the exact opposite." But nobody tells people that, Ben. Nobody just sits down and tells them that's not how you do it. BEN SETTLE: That’s one thing that's never changed, making fun of gurus. KEN MCCARTHY: Yeah, I love it. BEN SETTLE: That's been a time-honored tradition. KEN MCCARTHY: And then you've got the “goo-roo” or however you do it. BEN SETTLE: I first used that in April 2009 in an email. I don't know if anyone did before that. If not then spelling it that way along with inventing fapGPT may end up being my only original contributions to direct response lore and that's fine. Everyone uses goo-roo or some variation now and it's awesome to see. And so your course gives people sticker shock. But it’s a drop in the bucket in my opinion. I don’t say that just because I am selling it now as an affiliate either. I say that as someone who has been using the info for 17 years. KEN MCCARTHY: Here's the reality, and I know this is true, it's not just something that marketers say. If they get it too cheap, they just won't value it. BEN SETTLE: I think those who are horrified by the price are the same people who spent 50, 60, 70 grand on a college education that makes them nothing. KEN MCCARTHY: Right. Exactly. BEN SETTLE: So I don't know. I'm thinking back to just conversations we've had 17 or 18 years ago. And there's two things I remember you saying. Now, these are not in the course, they are the course, but they're not necessarily taught in the course as your methodology, but they're 100% your methodology. I remember you distinctly saying: "I get them on a list and I mail them for the rest of their lives." And two, you're like: "Well, let's say you're giving away this thing for free, even if it's free or it's cheap, what would you say in that copy if it costs $25,000?" And I can't put really a price tag on it, but I do know this. Just for a more recent example of that. About a year ago, I sold classified ads in my daily emails. One of the people who took me up on, it was Ryan Healy, who I know you know. KEN MCCARTHY: Yup. BEN SETTLE: And I don't know if you know Daniel Throssell or not, but he was another one. And they were asking me, how do to write these little ... I don't remember how many characters I gave them. It might've been the size of a tweet or something. I'm like: "Well, imagine the opt in to your site would cost $25,000. What would you say?" And they both said that was magnificent advice. I bring that up because that is the kind of information. Is it the secret way to make $10,000 by tomorrow? No, but this is not even necessarily secret, but it is a way. It's like this winemaker I know in the state, he's like: "The secret is there are no secrets." KEN MCCARTHY: Right. BEN SETTLE: And I would say that probably sums up your course. The secret is there are no secrets, but because no one's doing it, it might as well be a secret. KEN MCCARTHY: Right, right, right, right. BEN SETTLE: That's my opinion at least. KEN MCCARTHY: Right, right. Well, that's good. I'm glad ... Yeah, I'd forgotten. That is good advice. I'm glad for your memory, man. I'm glad for your memory! BEN SETTLE: I was just three years in this business, so I'm a sponge at that point, right? KEN MCCARTHY: Yeah. Yeah. BEN SETTLE: Nobody remembers everything, but you definitely remember the stuff that was immediately practical and useful because why wouldn't you? KEN MCCARTHY: I'm that way with Dan [Kennedy]. I have the System Club and I do this weekly thing called Ask Ken, where I basically just riff. And nine out of 10 calls, I'm either going, "As I learned from Dan Kennedy," or I often say, "Or as Ben Settle does," or I often say, "As I learned from" ... Or what Gary Bencivenga told me, I'll never forget how it changed my life. I'm always ... And it's the same thing. It's like certain things just ... Oh, they go in deep and they resonate because they're good. They're good. BEN SETTLE: This is not really a copywriting lesson, but it's amusing where a few years ago Gary Bencivenga sent you that email and then you physically mailed a copy of his email to my PO Box, if I remember correctly, and you said: “File this away for copywriting lore!” I'm thinking: "Okay, what is this?" And he was talking about how he offered to write copy for a nonprofit. KEN MCCARTHY: Oh, yeah. BEN SETTLE: World's greatest copywriter, generating God-only-knows how many 100s of millions in sales with direct mail in the harshest selling environments, often competing head-to-head with other A-list copywriters who are the best in the business too and winning against most of them… and the PR person at the non-profit dismisses his offer, saying: "Everyone wants to be the copywriter." KEN MCCARTHY: Right, right, right. Right, right, right. BEN SETTLE: That was awesome. It has nothing to do with anything, but it was funny. KEN MCCARTHY: It's like LeBron James shows up. He wants to be on your pickup basketball team. You're like: "We already got five guys." BEN SETTLE: This is the power of understanding this skill. You could make yourself a so-called superstar of your niche if you want. And everybody wants that at first until it happens. Then you realize you have no privacy. KEN MCCARTHY: Right. BEN SETTLE: You talked about the parrots and, of course, you talked about tango. That was another example in there. KEN MCCARTHY: Yup. BEN SETTLE: And these are niche things. And I think this is important. You're just not in there talking about marketing niches. You’re also not just talking about just the usual weight loss diet and dog training pitches or financial offers or or make muney or whatever. This works for anything. KEN MCCARTHY: Anything. BEN SETTLE: These are obscure niches. KEN MCCARTHY: Yeah. BEN SETTLE: Like parrots. I mean, come on. If you can do it for parrots, you can do it for pretty much anything. KEN MCCARTHY: My model for business has always been the two frogs that fall into the vat of milk. And one just drowns out of despair because he does nothing. And the other just pedals. He doesn't know what he's doing. He's just doing something. And by churning, he churns the milk into cream and he's able to, with that as his foundation, jump out. I don't know if I want to teach that as the method, but that is my actual method. I don't know what I'm doing. I just keep churning! BEN SETTLE: Well, that's how we all learn copywriting. We just keep writing. And then one day, things just start clicking, bam, bam, bam. And it doesn't take years, but it can take months, for sure. I remember pouring over swipe files, pouring over courses, books, and notes. I did the Gary Halbert one note to a card. I remember I ... They were stacked half my body in length! KEN MCCARTHY: Wow. BEN SETTLE: I lost them in a move. I can't believe I lost them in a move, but whatever. But my point is it takes that, just repetition. In fact, in the course, I think you talk about how it's like boxers, they just keep running. You just keep running and you keep building up. And that's what it happens. It's just one thing at a time. And it's important to know that. You really got to work hard at it and it will click. It absolutely will click. It clicked for everybody in that room. You can hear it. You can almost hear it clicking in their heads on the audios. They did it over two days. KEN MCCARTHY: It was transformational for the people that were there. And they were just regular guys trying to figure it out and they all walked out knowing what to do. BEN SETTLE: Yeah. KEN MCCARTHY: They finally knew what to do and they had a direction. The fighting chance, that's always my principle is the only thing and the best thing you can give your students is a fighting chance. Give them all the good stuff. Don't give them any fluff. Don't give them any theory. Give them the fighting chance so they can go out and fight because they're going to have to fight. Yeah. I would also say this is military training. I took it that seriously because you're going to be out there and the lead's going to be flying. And if you haven't been trained in what to do, you're dead. And if you have been trained, you have a chance. That's all I can ever give anybody. # # # All right, hope you enjoyed this interview, it was a lot between the lines. On that note: Ken’s offering his prestigious “Advanced Copywriting For Serious Info Marketers” course at a gigantic discount for my Horde only, until tonight, Friday 1/12 at midnight EST. Plus, if you use my affiliate link and send me your receipt, the title of the book you want me to send you, & the shipping address by that deadline (not after — to be clear, you must send your receipt, shipping address, and the title you want to me, not just buy the course, BEFORE the deadline to get it), I will send you: 1. Free copy of any ONE book I sell I don’t care if it’s one of the bigger ticket ones or one of the more inexpensive ones. Simply buy Ken’s course by the deadline and then email me your receipt with your shipping address & the book you want me to send you (also by the deadline — if you send me your receipt, the title of the book you want, and your shipping address AFTER the above deadline, I am not sending you the book, let me be very clear about that here) 2. Live call with me and Ken about: The end of the world! I want to grill him about the economy. And the reason why is because Ken “came of age” in finance during the 80’s in Wall Street. I have learned more from him (and I told him this recently) about not just basic economics that is not taught in school than from anyone else, but he genuinely has given me a lot of peace of mind knowing what he does on this topic. Those who read this month’s Email Players issue will know what I mean by that. Not only peace of mind, but he has helped me position and adjust my own finances, what I invest in (it’s not investing advice, just by understanding what’s going on you can make better decisions), what I buy and don’t buy, how I think of money, how I am planning for the fallout of what’s been going on for over a decade and is about to completely unravel probably this year — maybe sooner than the end of the year, maybe later, but it’s inevitable — and the list goes on. This call (day & time TBA) will be live to customers of this promo. All right ‘nuff said about that. The deadline is tonight, Friday 1/12 at midnight EST to get Ken’s course at the discount, get any ONE book I sell (if you send me your receipt, shipping address, and the title of the book you want me to send you by the deadline, if you send the above to me after the deadline I will NOT send you the book, many-a-disappointed-customer who couldn’t tell time has learned this hard way…), plus access to the live call above. Hopefully that is all clear. Whatever the case, here is the link: [https∶//www.EmailPlayers.com/secret-course]( Ben Settle This email was sent by Ben Settle as owner of Settle, LLC. Copyright © 2024 Settle, LLC. All Rights Reserved. No part of this email may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means without written permission from Settle, LLC. Click here to [unsubscribe]( Settle, LLC PO Box 1056 Gold Beach Oregon 97444 USA