“Spitballing” with a marketing genius part 2

Mushing on with part 2 of my recent interview with the great Ken McCarthy… KEN MCCARTHY: I mean, you need to know how to develop products. You need to know how to manage a business, which I'm still trying to figure out how to do. But the other thing you need to know, I don't have a fucking clue, man, it's unbelievable. BEN SETTLE: I know. I hear you. KEN MCCARTHY: It's unbelievable. BEN SETTLE: I have to have my kitchen table business and that's about all I can handle. KEN MCCARTHY: Yeah, it's pathetic. It's really pathetic. Okay. BEN SETTLE: Well, I got a Troy at least and a Nicole with the software company. Troy’s the business guy and Nicole is the COO there. But in my own business I literally work on a wine barrel table in the kitchen of a detached guest house, outsourcing everything. Pure kitchen table business. Not a real company with systems that keep things growing and working in place if I decide not to show up. KEN MCCARTHY: It's amazing. But the thing that I can do and the thing that everybody needs to be able to do if they're going to be in business is you need to know how to think like a copywriter because what copywriters do is they solve problems. Yeah, we're selling stuff, that's one of the things we do, but we're often solving problems. We're solving positioning problems. We're solving awareness problems. If we fuck up, we're trying to figure out a nice way to write an apology. You know what I mean? If we're trying to motivate somebody, an employee that needs to do better, we got to figure out: "Okay, how do I position this so that he gets it?" Every communication you have with anybody is actually a copywriting issue. You got to get their attention. You have to have their interest. You have to give them some picture of a better world and then you have to show them what to do. So this is a skill that everybody needs to do. So this is a key. This course is not just for copywriters or would-be copywriters. This is for anybody that is in business because we all have to think like copywriters, which, again, is all about attention, interest, desire, action. And the other thing that I like is that this course has never ended up in the bogus bonus pile. You know how it used to be like someone would come out with a $5,000 course, and then two months later, it would be a free bonus for somebody else's eBook. BEN SETTLE: I'll throw something in here for you. KEN MCCARTHY: Yeah. BEN SETTLE: So I've been selling it for, what, 17 years, I think. Since Spring 2007 I’ve been selling it as your affiliate off and on for at least 17 years. And I can tell you, I hear back from people because I always offer a unique bonus, something good, something that they can use with it. And the people who seem the most enthused about it are the beginners. I'm not saying necessarily someone who just opened their own PayPal account yesterday. But people who have businesses and they really don't know what they're doing. You worded it in a very specific way to me once many years ago. You said: “It's for people who are confused about copywriting, not getting the results I want, and don't know where to turn.” And that's exactly who are the most excited about it after they go through it. At least, from the people who have bought it from me. It doesn't mean people who know what they're doing aren't buying it because they are. But they're not necessarily buying it because of the copywriting, but because you show the whole info publishing side, which nobody talks about that in any course I've ever seen at least. And that's a huge. I can tell you, it's been instrumental in how I've started my info publishing thing. I mean, I've told you this, I veer a little bit because I do crazy stuff that shouldn't work but I can pull it off for whatever reason. But it all started with that. You know, like that whole thing you talked about with the parrots- KEN MCCARTHY: Oh, yeah. You got that! BEN SETTLE: I listened to that damn course 15 times when I was writing the ad for it. I'm like: ”This is really useful!” And suddenly I’m taking notes for myself, not just for the ad. And that whole parrot thing you do, it's a perfect template for an info publishing business that I still draw upon to this day. So that's one of my testimonials for you. KEN MCCARTHY: Thank you very much. It's funny. Bettina loved the parrot thing. And that literally came out of my ass! I was on stage, I needed to say something. And I was trying to- BEN SETTLE: Oh, it was great. Yeah. And then at the very high level, they get to go dance with the parrot grand poo bah statue or whatever it was, but it was good, it was really good. I mean, this is the stuff that's not even so-called “copywriting,” but it makes whatever copy you write so much more powerful because you like to teach positioning. So there's so much there that it goes beyond copywriting. In fact, the copywriting thing is only four or five sections out of 14 or 13 sections I think. KEN MCCARTHY: It is, yeah. BEN SETTLE: After the copywriting parts it’s like, “let's put that stuff on steroids.” Then it’s here's how to structure an actual info publishing business. Here's how to do this so you don't have to wonder if you're being ethical about things. I tell you right now, Ken, I get questions like this all the time: “How do I know I'm not just doing this for the money? How do I check myself?” This is a real problem for people. I'm not making fun of them. I'm saying it is a real problem for people. KEN MCCARTHY: Well, I think it's a good question to ask because this is a double-edged sword and God knows we've both seen people that have used it in less than ethical ways. Yeah. And I put as much effort into systematizing the writing of copy and the building of an info business as I did into systematizing the direct response model for the internet, which I had a big role in, and as much effort as I put into trying to figure out how to commercialize the internet in the first place. In other words, I mean, it's a course, but it's like I put my all into this thing, I guess, is my point. And it's like people might say: “Well, what's your all?" Well, I guess my other two alls were I made the internet commercial and I established a direct response model that worked. How's that for something? But I put the same amount of like I got to solve this. Because when I sat down to create this course, I didn't know what the answer was. I've always been motivated by not wanting to see good people get blown up. I didn't want to see people pay $25,000 for a website and have nothing. I didn't want people to give a bogus copywriting guru $25,000 for a letter and think that they actually had a business. BEN SETTLE: That was something that happened to you, too, right? You paid some sociopath — literally — $10,000 and they did a search and replace job? Then broke down into fake tears when you called him on it? KEN MCCARTHY: Yeah, that was pretty much, and I was already an experienced copywriter. I was just hoping I could find someone to take some of the burden off my workday, but I realized I really can't. And here is something else. Now, I'm not saying nobody was doing this, but it was rare. Number one, the power of the daily email. That was not something people were doing in 2005. It was- BEN SETTLE: People still fight me and others teaching daily emails today. KEN MCCARTHY: Of course. BEN SETTLE: It's crazy how people still fight that. They still do. I don’t know if it’s laziness or stupidity or they fear trying or what. But it’s a thing. I just roll my eyes at them, they obviously never tried it. And if they did maybe they just did it wrong, just sending blatant bull shit nobody likes to read. Who knows? KEN MCCARTHY: Yeah. I always say: "Look, if they don't want your email, what makes you think they're going to ever buy from you?" And if they like you, they want an email from you every day. So that was something that I put the flag in the sand and I said: ”Test it, do it." The other thing I love that I did is I said: “Look, all this dependence on swipe files and copying other people's stuff and trying to be slick with this copywriter talk, I hope that I demolished that in the course." And then I said: "Find your natural language, speak, tell your story, whatever it is, however you want to tell it, but don't be a fucking copywriter with all the copywriting bells and whistles. Speak, talk, teach." BEN SETTLE: This is so timely with all the AI-written copy. I mean, it's everything that you preach against for people who are literally trying to have a machine write their copy. KEN MCCARTHY: Oh my God. BEN SETTLE: And I've seen it and I've seen a few examples of this. And I can tell you, it's like your worst nightmares come true. If you know anyone doing it, just ask them to show you what they do and they think it's great. But you'll look at it and be like: “No this is total shit, please just go back to mindlessy swiping the old-fashioned way! Even that’s better than this AI horse shit…” KEN MCCARTHY: Go back to the old crap. Yeah, it's like they've taken stupidity and put it on steroids. # # # That ends part 2 of my “back room chat” with Ken McCarthy. On that note: Ken’s offering his prestigious “Advanced Copywriting For Serious Info Marketers” course at a gigantic discount for my Horde only, until Friday, 1/12 at midnight EST. Plus, if you use my affiliate link and send me your receipt, the title of the book you want me to send you, & the shipping address by that deadline (not after — to be clear, you must send your receipt, shipping address, and the title you want to me, not just buy the course, BEFORE the deadline to get it), I will send you: 1. Free copy of any ONE book I sell I don’t care if it’s one of the bigger ticket ones or one of the more inexpensive ones. Simply buy Ken’s course by the deadline and then email me your receipt with your shipping address & the book you want me to send you (also by the deadline — if you send me your receipt, the title of the book you want, and your shipping address AFTER the above deadline, I am not sending you the book, let me be very clear about that here) 2. Live call with me and Ken about: The end of the world! I want to grill him about the economy. And the reason why is because Ken “came of age” in finance during the 80’s in Wall Street. I have learned more from him (and I told him this recently) about not just basic economics that is not taught in school than from anyone else, but he genuinely has given me a lot of peace of mind knowing what he does on this topic. Those who read this month’s Email Players issue will know what I mean by that. Not only peace of mind, but he has helped me position and adjust my own finances, what I invest in (it’s not investing advice, just by understanding what’s going on you can make better decisions), what I buy and don’t buy, how I think of money, how I am planning for the fallout of what’s been going on for over a decade and is about to completely unravel probably this year — maybe sooner than the end of the year, maybe later, but it’s inevitable — and the list goes on. This call (day & time TBA) will be live to customers of this promo. All right ‘nuff said about that. The deadline is Friday 1/12 at midnight EST to get Ken’s course at the discount, get any ONE book I sell (if you send me your receipt, shipping address, and the title of the book you want me to send you by the deadline, if you send the above to me after the deadline I will NOT send you the book, many-a-disappointed-customer who couldn’t tell time has learned this hard way…), plus access to the live call above. Hopefully that is all clear. Whatever the case, here is the link: [https∶//www.EmailPlayers.com/secret-course]( Ben Settle This email was sent by Ben Settle as owner of Settle, LLC. Copyright © 2024 Settle, LLC. All Rights Reserved. No part of this email may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means without written permission from Settle, LLC. Click here to [unsubscribe]( Settle, LLC PO Box 1056 Gold Beach Oregon 97444 USA